Coburg
- Автор темы Александр Гладков
- Дата начала
Tango-1
Местный
Tango-1
Местный
Эскиз знака сделан собственноручно Гитлером. Только 436 награждений.
Tango-1
Местный
В России 4 знака. Два знака в одном архиве, знак Шауба в другом, один знак в частной коллекции. Все абсолютно одинаковые, не считая поврежденных крюков на двух из них.
Александр Гладков
Участник АК
А кто ведет такие отчеты? Или есть персональный известный хозяин у каждого из 436 знаков?
В сохране я не могу купить, с ремонтной заколкой было предложение, если не изменяет память 4500-5000 евро.
Bonewur
Участник АК
Bonewur
Участник АК
Bonewur
Участник АК
Михаил Беленький
Модератор
Tango-1
Местный
Ещё один оригинальный взгляд на "загадки Кобурга"
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The Coburg Badge
Ranking right up there with the Blood Order in important Third Reich political badges is the Coburg Badge... a simple looking badge in bronze with a little village on top of a wreath and a sword placed tip downward across the face of a swastika within the wreath. The wreath contains the words "MIT HITLER IN COBURG".
Be careful of the Coburg Badge! It withholds several secrets and because of some of those you might end up with a fake when you thought you bought a real one. Even the "authorities" have a little disagreement about this badge.
The first "mystery", and it is a minor one, is where the Coburg badge fits in the scheme of things within the hierarchy of Third Reich medals. David Littlejohn in his book ORDERS, DECORATIONS, MEDALS AND BADGES OF THE THIRD REICH, states categorically that it ranked "higher than the Blood Order". R. Kahl, in INSIGNIA, DECORATIONS AND BADGES OF THE THIRD REICH, makes the same statement.And it's true. All of us who have seen pictures of the Nazi leaders strutting down the Munich streets with their Blood Orders and their Blood Flag will continue to wonder how the Coburg Badge could rank higher, but it really did!
In November of 1936 Hitler gave new "orders" for the "Orders and Awards" of the Third Reich. According to ORDERS, EHRENZEICHEN UND TITEL, by Hanns Dombrowski, published in 1940, the NSDAP awards are listed in this order: 1. Coburg Badge; 2. Nurnberg Party Badge of 1929; 3. , SA Treffen at Brunswick; 4. Golden Party Badges under 100,000; 5. The Blood Order; followed by the Gaubadges and the Golden HJ Badge.
Hitler caused the Coburg Badge to be struck in 1932 to memorialize an event that took place ten years earlier, on Saturday, October 14, 1922, and to honor the participants.
One of the finest books, if not the finest, on the early Nazi years is I KNEW HITLER, by Kurt G.W. Ludecke. Ludecke was a sort of "public relations" man for Hitler... he later came to the U.S. as special envoy for Hitler in an effort to woo U.S. Germans to the Nazi cause and later escaped with his life during the Blood Purge of 1934.
On that day in 1922 Hitler was invited to "German Day" in Coburg and asked to bring a few friends. I have written before that Hitler, if nothing else, was an exceptional opportunist. He rented an entire train and filled it with 800 of his followers (virtually the whole Party) and even bought his own 42 piece band, planning to take the town by storm.
Ludecke is ecstatic when he writes about what happen in Coburg. Remember, in 1922 Hitler was a nobody on the German national scene; only his fanatical little band of followers thought anything would come of the "little man with the silly mustache. Most Germans had never even seen the swastika! According to Ludecke, "amassed burghers and wide-eyed Jews almost fell out of the express trains which passed them." Hiring the train was a huge bluff, the Nazi party had no money. Every man who climbed on the train bought one or more tickets, often with his last marks.
Coburg was a town which had long been dominated by Marxists. And the Marxists, of course, wanted no part of the Nazi "foreigners". When the Nazis arrived at Coburg, a uniformed policeman told them they could not march into the city with bands playing or flags flying. The words were music to the "opportunist" ears. Hitler pushed aside the policeman and they marched into the center of town, all flags flying, all instruments blaring. A crowd of thousands threatened to bar their way. No one was sure who these fanatics from Munich were. Suddenly some of the crowd (mostly Marxists) ,began to throw things and a furious fight ensued for perhaps 15 minutes. In time most of the crowd began to join the Nazis and before long they had won over the townspeople. Here, at last, they saw a savior" from the Communist repression. The town officials, of course, were not impressed or happy.
The next day as the Nazis triurnphantly boarded the train, Hitler was told the "Reds" would not run the train back to Munich. Again, Hitler saw an opportunity. He told the officials that he and his group would run the train themselves, but they would first kidnap every Communist they could find and would take them back to Munich on the commandeered train. What would then happen to the Communists was left to everyone's active imaginations. The Communists capitulated, the train ran. Hitler won!
And now to that badge and its secrets. No doubt that it is a heavy, solid bronze badge.
Ltc. John Angolia in his book FOR FUHRER AND FATHERLAND.. POLITICAL AND CIVIL AWARDS OF THE THIRD REICH says it was made of "massive bronze and was slightly convex, while later versions were thinner and flat." Forman's GUIDE TO THIRD REICH GERMAN AWARDS AND THEIR VALVES only mentions one version of the bronze medal (presumably the "massive convex" one mentioned by Angolia.) Littlejohn does not mention a "thinner" badge at all. HOWever, all authorities refer to another Coburg badge made of silver with a red swastika. Littlejohn says it's authentic; Forman gives it a price of $2000 and Angolia states it was probably a private purchase.
Forman lists the price of the bronze Coburg badge at $1,250. I have seen them on tables of reputable dealers for somewhat less than that. The problem, of course, is knowing if they are real. The fakes I have seen have "villages" on top that simply do not match the real ones. I saw one recently that was "thin" all right. It resembled a large, cheap tinnie. The asking price was $400. I passed.
Robert McCarthy, who has a fine example of a real Coburg badge, mentions that you should look for a small RZM on the lower reverse of the badge. Steve Wolfe says that the thinner version does exist, but without the RZM and that there is very little difference between the two versions.
Even thought "thinner" badges were apparently manufactured, my "authority quotient" would feel more comfortable with the heavier "massive" bronze medal, and with the RZM mark.There were only 436 of these badges awarded which makes originals fairly rare.
Mickey Huffman, "The Curious Case of the Coburg Badge", Der Gauleiter, 1989
-----------------------------
:-))
------------------------------------
The Coburg Badge
Ranking right up there with the Blood Order in important Third Reich political badges is the Coburg Badge... a simple looking badge in bronze with a little village on top of a wreath and a sword placed tip downward across the face of a swastika within the wreath. The wreath contains the words "MIT HITLER IN COBURG".
Be careful of the Coburg Badge! It withholds several secrets and because of some of those you might end up with a fake when you thought you bought a real one. Even the "authorities" have a little disagreement about this badge.
The first "mystery", and it is a minor one, is where the Coburg badge fits in the scheme of things within the hierarchy of Third Reich medals. David Littlejohn in his book ORDERS, DECORATIONS, MEDALS AND BADGES OF THE THIRD REICH, states categorically that it ranked "higher than the Blood Order". R. Kahl, in INSIGNIA, DECORATIONS AND BADGES OF THE THIRD REICH, makes the same statement.And it's true. All of us who have seen pictures of the Nazi leaders strutting down the Munich streets with their Blood Orders and their Blood Flag will continue to wonder how the Coburg Badge could rank higher, but it really did!
In November of 1936 Hitler gave new "orders" for the "Orders and Awards" of the Third Reich. According to ORDERS, EHRENZEICHEN UND TITEL, by Hanns Dombrowski, published in 1940, the NSDAP awards are listed in this order: 1. Coburg Badge; 2. Nurnberg Party Badge of 1929; 3. , SA Treffen at Brunswick; 4. Golden Party Badges under 100,000; 5. The Blood Order; followed by the Gaubadges and the Golden HJ Badge.
Hitler caused the Coburg Badge to be struck in 1932 to memorialize an event that took place ten years earlier, on Saturday, October 14, 1922, and to honor the participants.
One of the finest books, if not the finest, on the early Nazi years is I KNEW HITLER, by Kurt G.W. Ludecke. Ludecke was a sort of "public relations" man for Hitler... he later came to the U.S. as special envoy for Hitler in an effort to woo U.S. Germans to the Nazi cause and later escaped with his life during the Blood Purge of 1934.
On that day in 1922 Hitler was invited to "German Day" in Coburg and asked to bring a few friends. I have written before that Hitler, if nothing else, was an exceptional opportunist. He rented an entire train and filled it with 800 of his followers (virtually the whole Party) and even bought his own 42 piece band, planning to take the town by storm.
Ludecke is ecstatic when he writes about what happen in Coburg. Remember, in 1922 Hitler was a nobody on the German national scene; only his fanatical little band of followers thought anything would come of the "little man with the silly mustache. Most Germans had never even seen the swastika! According to Ludecke, "amassed burghers and wide-eyed Jews almost fell out of the express trains which passed them." Hiring the train was a huge bluff, the Nazi party had no money. Every man who climbed on the train bought one or more tickets, often with his last marks.
Coburg was a town which had long been dominated by Marxists. And the Marxists, of course, wanted no part of the Nazi "foreigners". When the Nazis arrived at Coburg, a uniformed policeman told them they could not march into the city with bands playing or flags flying. The words were music to the "opportunist" ears. Hitler pushed aside the policeman and they marched into the center of town, all flags flying, all instruments blaring. A crowd of thousands threatened to bar their way. No one was sure who these fanatics from Munich were. Suddenly some of the crowd (mostly Marxists) ,began to throw things and a furious fight ensued for perhaps 15 minutes. In time most of the crowd began to join the Nazis and before long they had won over the townspeople. Here, at last, they saw a savior" from the Communist repression. The town officials, of course, were not impressed or happy.
The next day as the Nazis triurnphantly boarded the train, Hitler was told the "Reds" would not run the train back to Munich. Again, Hitler saw an opportunity. He told the officials that he and his group would run the train themselves, but they would first kidnap every Communist they could find and would take them back to Munich on the commandeered train. What would then happen to the Communists was left to everyone's active imaginations. The Communists capitulated, the train ran. Hitler won!
And now to that badge and its secrets. No doubt that it is a heavy, solid bronze badge.
Ltc. John Angolia in his book FOR FUHRER AND FATHERLAND.. POLITICAL AND CIVIL AWARDS OF THE THIRD REICH says it was made of "massive bronze and was slightly convex, while later versions were thinner and flat." Forman's GUIDE TO THIRD REICH GERMAN AWARDS AND THEIR VALVES only mentions one version of the bronze medal (presumably the "massive convex" one mentioned by Angolia.) Littlejohn does not mention a "thinner" badge at all. HOWever, all authorities refer to another Coburg badge made of silver with a red swastika. Littlejohn says it's authentic; Forman gives it a price of $2000 and Angolia states it was probably a private purchase.
Forman lists the price of the bronze Coburg badge at $1,250. I have seen them on tables of reputable dealers for somewhat less than that. The problem, of course, is knowing if they are real. The fakes I have seen have "villages" on top that simply do not match the real ones. I saw one recently that was "thin" all right. It resembled a large, cheap tinnie. The asking price was $400. I passed.
Robert McCarthy, who has a fine example of a real Coburg badge, mentions that you should look for a small RZM on the lower reverse of the badge. Steve Wolfe says that the thinner version does exist, but without the RZM and that there is very little difference between the two versions.
Even thought "thinner" badges were apparently manufactured, my "authority quotient" would feel more comfortable with the heavier "massive" bronze medal, and with the RZM mark.There were only 436 of these badges awarded which makes originals fairly rare.
Mickey Huffman, "The Curious Case of the Coburg Badge", Der Gauleiter, 1989
-----------------------------
:-))
Bonewur
Участник АК
秦始皇兵马俑是西安一道亮丽的风景。实际上,兵马俑坑距离秦始皇帝陵(中心是常人所见的帝陵封土或专家眼中的封土之下的地宫)尚有3000米左右。
经考古测量,现存的秦始皇帝陵的封土呈覆斗形,是古代中国体量最大的帝王陵封土。在长期考古工作基础上,2002年国家启动了863“秦陵遥感与地球物理综合探查技术”工程,主要任务之一是用已有的物探化探技术方法,验证包括秦陵封土在内的建筑问题。这一工程的成果之一便是:在秦陵封土堆下墓圹周围,发现了一组环绕墓圹周边、上部高出秦代地表30米左右、体量巨大的台阶式墙状夯土台,东西夯土台的中间部位各留有一处缺口,与墓道重合,夯土台围就的内部即墓室上部则以粗夯土填充。
陕西省考古研究院研究员段清波博士,以秦始皇帝陵考古队长的身份参与了整个探查工程。他说:“当时感觉真是匪夷所思!封土下竟有高出地面30米的台阶式墙状夯土台建筑,这在中国古代墓葬史上是一个特例。为慎重起见,我们对其进行了考古学基本方法的验证:结果这栋‘高楼’在随后的考古勘探中得到了证明。”
那么,这一“高楼”究竟是什么样呢?根据遥感等技术图形和考古学基本方法验证,专家们终于描绘出了这栋“高楼”的主体:台阶式墙状夯土台非常庞大,但总体上呈“回”字形,下宽上窄,内外均有台阶。按照古代陵墓建筑程序,首先是开挖墓圹,下建地宫。根据物探考古得知:秦陵地宫的开挖范围东西长约170米、南北宽约145米;其底部东西长约80米、南北宽约50米,高约15米,底部距地表约30米。按照建筑需要,在地宫建设好之后,其上的封土建筑(包括封土内的建筑)才能陆续开建。考古勘探发现,地宫之上封土之内的夯土台十分坚固,其顶部的外侧东西长168米,南北宽142米;内侧东西长124米,南北宽107米;其南墙的顶宽16米,北墙顶宽19米,东西墙顶宽22米;在东、西、北墙(南墙尚未勘探)的外侧均为九级台阶,外侧的每层台阶均高3米,宽2米;东墙、北墙内侧现已发现六级台阶,南墙西墙尚不清楚。
段清波认为,根据资料分析,这栋“高楼”建筑的夯土基础的一部分在墓圹外,一部分伸进墓圹内,伸进墓圹的夯土可能紧贴墓壁建造,接近墓室部分可能使用了大量的青砖和石材。他说:“重要的是,在东、西、北墙外侧的上部台阶上发现了较为广泛的瓦片,瓦片堆积凌乱,靠近顶面的台阶上瓦片较多,中下部台阶上的瓦片也有零星的发现。但是,在台阶式墙状建筑的顶面几乎没有见到瓦片,顶面及各级台阶上也没有发现红烧土和木炭遗迹。”“夯土台阶外侧的形状,有可能在各层台阶上没有木构建筑,仅在墙状夯土台顶面上有木构瓦顶建筑。也有可能各层台阶及顶面上均建有木构瓦顶建筑,从远处观察陵墓的话,除却中心部位外,其实是·座高达九级的高台木构建筑。”他说。两千多年的自然损坏,人们还能看出这栋“高楼”吗?段清波认为,这座九级高台建筑被完全覆压在巨大的封土之下,除借助科技手段之外无人能见。
“我们分析高台建筑在秦始皇未死前就已建成,只是在最后堆筑封土时被毁,封土覆盖的时间可能在埋葬秦始皇之后。最后的封土是夯筑而成的,只不过夯筑的精细程度不如‘高楼’,其厚度在40厘米-70厘米间。”他说。
秦陵这种建筑形式因其在中国墓葬史上的独一无二性,被专家们称为“秦陵式”。那么,秦陵封土内“高楼”的建筑形式来自何方?地处丝绸之路西北要冲的历史上的秦国,会不会在墓葬制度中吸收了其他文化的因子呢?段清波在美国与著名汉学家夏涵夷教授谈论秦始皇帝陵封土建筑的来源时,得到了对方的热情回应,他说:“碰撞让我们不由自主地想到了‘世界七大奇观’之一的摩索拉斯陵墓。”位于土耳其西南部海边的摩索拉斯陵墓是由来自帕罗斯岛的雕饰华丽的白色大理石建成。堪称希,腊古典时代晚期陵墓方面最有名的建筑。后来与埃及的金字塔、巴比伦的空中花园等被誉为“世界七大奇观”。段清波说,公元前4世纪的摩索拉斯陵墓的基本结构是其下部的高台、环廊和金字塔形顶,除了金字塔形顶和秦始皇帝陵封土建筑不同外,高台和环廊是它们的共同特征。就现有的资料,我们无法判断它们之间是否有某种联系,但它们之间太过强烈的相似性,不由得会使人产生这种联想。或许将来进一步的资料丰富起来后,这一推测就会更加可靠些。◇
(编辑:王秀真)
Саш -это ты Юстас -Алексу ( написал шифром)秦始皇兵马俑是西安一道亮丽的风景。实际上,兵马俑坑距离秦始皇帝陵(中心是常人所见的帝陵封土或专家眼中的封土之下的地宫)尚有3000米左右。
经考古测量,现存的秦始皇帝陵的封土呈覆斗形,是古代中国体量最大的帝王陵封土。在长期考古工作基础上,2002年国家启动了863“秦陵遥感与地球物理综合探查技术”工程,主要任务之一是用已有的物探化探技术方法,验证包括秦陵封土在内的建筑问题。这一工程的成果之一便是:在秦陵封土堆下墓圹周围,发现了一组环绕墓圹周边、上部高出秦代地表30米左右、体量巨大的台阶式墙状夯土台,东西夯土台的中间部位各留有一处缺口,与墓道重合,夯土台围就的内部即墓室上部则以粗夯土填充。
陕西省考古研究院研究员段清波博士,以秦始皇帝陵考古队长的身份参与了整个探查工程。他说:“当时感觉真是匪夷所思!封土下竟有高出地面30米的台阶式墙状夯土台建筑,这在中国古代墓葬史上是一个特例。为慎重起见,我们对其进行了考古学基本方法的验证:结果这栋‘高楼’在随后的考古勘探中得到了证明。”
那么,这一“高楼”究竟是什么样呢?根据遥感等技术图形和考古学基本方法验证,专家们终于描绘出了这栋“高楼”的主体:台阶式墙状夯土台非常庞大,但总体上呈“回”字形,下宽上窄,内外均有台阶。按照古代陵墓建筑程序,首先是开挖墓圹,下建地宫。根据物探考古得知:秦陵地宫的开挖范围东西长约170米、南北宽约145米;其底部东西长约80米、南北宽约50米,高约15米,底部距地表约30米。按照建筑需要,在地宫建设好之后,其上的封土建筑(包括封土内的建筑)才能陆续开建。考古勘探发现,地宫之上封土之内的夯土台十分坚固,其顶部的外侧东西长168米,南北宽142米;内侧东西长124米,南北宽107米;其南墙的顶宽16米,北墙顶宽19米,东西墙顶宽22米;在东、西、北墙(南墙尚未勘探)的外侧均为九级台阶,外侧的每层台阶均高3米,宽2米;东墙、北墙内侧现已发现六级台阶,南墙西墙尚不清楚。
段清波认为,根据资料分析,这栋“高楼”建筑的夯土基础的一部分在墓圹外,一部分伸进墓圹内,伸进墓圹的夯土可能紧贴墓壁建造,接近墓室部分可能使用了大量的青砖和石材。他说:“重要的是,在东、西、北墙外侧的上部台阶上发现了较为广泛的瓦片,瓦片堆积凌乱,靠近顶面的台阶上瓦片较多,中下部台阶上的瓦片也有零星的发现。但是,在台阶式墙状建筑的顶面几乎没有见到瓦片,顶面及各级台阶上也没有发现红烧土和木炭遗迹。”“夯土台阶外侧的形状,有可能在各层台阶上没有木构建筑,仅在墙状夯土台顶面上有木构瓦顶建筑。也有可能各层台阶及顶面上均建有木构瓦顶建筑,从远处观察陵墓的话,除却中心部位外,其实是·座高达九级的高台木构建筑。”他说。两千多年的自然损坏,人们还能看出这栋“高楼”吗?段清波认为,这座九级高台建筑被完全覆压在巨大的封土之下,除借助科技手段之外无人能见。
“我们分析高台建筑在秦始皇未死前就已建成,只是在最后堆筑封土时被毁,封土覆盖的时间可能在埋葬秦始皇之后。最后的封土是夯筑而成的,只不过夯筑的精细程度不如‘高楼’,其厚度在40厘米-70厘米间。”他说。
秦陵这种建筑形式因其在中国墓葬史上的独一无二性,被专家们称为“秦陵式”。那么,秦陵封土内“高楼”的建筑形式来自何方?地处丝绸之路西北要冲的历史上的秦国,会不会在墓葬制度中吸收了其他文化的因子呢?段清波在美国与著名汉学家夏涵夷教授谈论秦始皇帝陵封土建筑的来源时,得到了对方的热情回应,他说:“碰撞让我们不由自主地想到了‘世界七大奇观’之一的摩索拉斯陵墓。”位于土耳其西南部海边的摩索拉斯陵墓是由来自帕罗斯岛的雕饰华丽的白色大理石建成。堪称希,腊古典时代晚期陵墓方面最有名的建筑。后来与埃及的金字塔、巴比伦的空中花园等被誉为“世界七大奇观”。段清波说,公元前4世纪的摩索拉斯陵墓的基本结构是其下部的高台、环廊和金字塔形顶,除了金字塔形顶和秦始皇帝陵封土建筑不同外,高台和环廊是它们的共同特征。就现有的资料,我们无法判断它们之间是否有某种联系,但它们之间太过强烈的相似性,不由得会使人产生这种联想。或许将来进一步的资料丰富起来后,这一推测就会更加可靠些。◇
(编辑:王秀真)
Остается увидеть оборотку... это главное в статье, думаю.
Михаил Беленький
Модератор
Кстати, в музеях самого Кобурга нет ни одного знака.
Александр Гладков
Участник АК
А должны быть?
Михаил Беленький
Модератор
Может и нет. Но посмотреть хотелось.
